A night with Marlon James

Novelist James discusses topics including literature, violence, and sex

Joe Duffy / Contributor / The USD Vista

In introducing novelist Marlon James to the Kroc theater stage last week, USD professor Brian Clack, Ph.D., quoted The Washington Post’s review of James’ new novel, “Black Leopard, Red Wolf.” 

“James has spun an African fantasy as vibrant, complex, and haunting as any Western mythology, and nobody who survives reading this book will ever forget it,” Clack said.

Moments later, James walked out to the IPJ stage wearing a black jacket, track pants, combat boots, and a grey beanie wrapped around his thick dreadlocks. Once the applause died down, James begun his reading. 

“I think you can survive my book,” James said. “But if not, at least buy it first.” 

The night was filled with funny moments like these as James read from his new book, discussed African mythology, and fielded questions from the audience. The event was presented by the USD Humanities Center and Warwick’s, and was part of the Illume Speaker Series, a program that hosts scholars and other public figures “to advance the liberal arts on our campus and inspire lifelong learning in our surrounding communities.”

The Jamaican-born author emerged as a major literary figure in 2015, when his novel “A Brief History of Seven Killings” was released to rave reviews and won the prestigious Booker Prize, making him the first Jamaican writer to ever receive the honor.

“Black Leopard, Red Wolf,” his latest work since winning the prize, is the first installment of an ambitious trilogy set in a fictional Africa. The novel follows a gifted yet morally ambiguous mercenary named Tracker, who is enlisted to find a missing boy along with a strange assortment of other fantastical characters. Together, they travel through mythic kingdoms, navigate complex political tensions, and explore an ancient world rife with danger. 

A copy of “Black Leopard, Red Wolf” was included with the purchase of a ticket. A book signing followed the reading and a line of people holding their copies of the book stretched past the foyer and into the hallway of the IPJ.

The audience eventually left and stacks of James’ books were being packed up into boxes by event staff. James sat at a table outside of the IPJ theater, signing books and posters being handed to him by organizers.

In an interview, The USD Vista asked James about his daily routine when he’s working on a novel, and he talked about keeping a fairly strict schedule. 

“I get to work around 11 a.m. and I sit down and I write until around 6 p.m.” James said. “And regardless of where I am that day, I’m done, I just stop.”

He also discussed navigating the boundary between gratuitous violence and what he calls “edited” violence in his work.

“People think I write explicitly violent novels and I actually don’t think my novels are that violent,” James said. “But, I do think the violence comes with suffering and I do think the violence reverberates and resonates and echoes and if something is resonating for a while you’ll think it’s almost everywhere, but it’s not.”

As far as living in the spotlight, James expressed gratitude for all of the attention he’s been receiving, but was ambivalent about the newfound fame. 

“It is overwhelming,” James said. “It’s overwhelming and it is kind of strange. I’ve been writing books for a while and I’ve had readings where nobody showed up… So having had every possible outcome in this industry, having been at every possible stage, from the writer nobody’s heard of and nobody really needs to read, to somebody where a lot of people are interested, it can be surreal.”

Lastly, James was asked about how his newest novel is filled with really strange but intensely sensual sex scenes. 

“Ooh, the key to writing a great sex scene,” James chuckled. “The key to writing a great sex scene is being explicit without being over the top. It’s risking sentimentality. It’s remembering that people actually enjoy sex… I always say sex should be sexy. Violence should be violent, sex should be sexy.”

Transcript:

What’s your daily routine like when you’re at work on a novel?

MJ: I have a pretty 9-5 routine. I get up when I get up, but I usually get to the office around 10:30 or 11. Usually music is playing or I was playing music on the way because I bike to work. I get there around 11 and I sit down and I write until around 6. And regardless of where I am that day, I’m done, I just stop. So I actually keep pretty regular and actually strict work hours.

So it’s more of a time constraint for you as opposed to turning out a certain number of pages or words.

MJ: Yeah, it’s a time thing, kinda both. My previous novel I think I had a limit of 1,000 words per day, this one I think was about 2,000 per day. But I find that the more professional I am, the more creative I am. I had a creative writing teacher who said that if you set a routine the muses will show up, and she’s right.

Basically just treating it like any other job.

MJ: Or like any other creative thing. Like the dancer has to do this, the singer has to practice every day, the dancer has to practice every day—other creative people understand that. Setting a routine doesn’t make the dancer less of a dancer; in fact, it makes her a greater dancer. And I actually think writing is the same thing.

And for this book [Black Leopard, Red Wolf], you talked about doing a lot of research, looking back at African myths and stories. I feel like myths in history typically have some sort of moral lesson embedded in them. Do you think that modern audiences have a different relationship with myths?

MJ: I mean if they don’t know, then sure, they’d probably think it’s just a yarn. But I also think that morals change and I think lessons change. I think the type of lessons that Snow White was supposed to teach people don’t really apply to us anymore. Which is probably why stories have evolved and changed, but in terms of what they say about human nature I don’t think those have changed at all. You know, we’re still scared of the other and we’re still afraid of things that go bump in the night. And we still think virtues should be rewarded and all of that. But readers bring their own context to a story, or rather they bring their own subtext to a story. And stories that mean one thing a hundred years ago mean something else now. So I think it’s really more that the meanings change for the readers…

As society changes or as the readers change.

MJ: Yeah.

In an interview with The Guardian you were talking about violence and you said that “You have to risk going too far, or you won’t get close to the power or the horror of it.” So I wonder how you navigate that boundary of gratuitous violence vs. what you called ‘edited’ violence or more played-down violence?

MJ: Actually it’s not played-down, it’s still explicit. I think the difference is do you get numb to it? Because that’s the thing about pornography, and explicit violence is pornography. The response is not titillation or horror, it’s numbness. And I think as long as the reader, or as long as I don’t get numb writing it, I think it’s visceral but it’s still creative. I always think violence should be violent, if for no other reason than the people who go through it. The thing is, when we write violence, a lot of people write violence in books and film—there’s all this violence but there’s never any suffering. People think I write explicitly violent novels, and I actually don’t think my novels are that violent. But I do think the violence comes with suffering and I do think the violence reverberates and resonates and echoes and if something is resonating for a while you’ll think it’s almost everywhere, but it’s not. But I do think these things are shocking and they’re abnormal and they’re not within normal experience and I think [the literature] should reflect it.

I’m wondering if when you were writing this book you were thinking about the people who were Harry Potter or Twilight or Lord of the Rings fans who maybe had certain preconceived notions about what your book would be like, and then would pick it up and be a little bit shocked.

MJ: God, I hope so. I mean of course I want the sci-fi/fantasy fans. I think the area where I kind of sort of bore them in mind is just how geeked out I was on it, that it goes into a lot of detail, a lot of world-building, a lot of things. if you’re on board for sci-fi/fantasy, you’re on board for certain things as well—you’re on board for world-building, you’re on board for magical creatures, you’re on board for different realities and so on, and I think in that sense that reader would have gotten all of that. Because as a sci-fi fan and reader myself, I also want to scratch that itch. But the worldview would be different, and I think a lot of the European fantasy is not just European, they’re also kind of Christian, or at the very least Calvinist. And I was entering and writing a world that’s completely different from that. So I think there are signifiers of sci-fi and fantasy that would attract [those fans]. But as a sci-fi fan, I also look out for sign posts of ‘Oh, this is going to be fantasy’. I want exploits and daring and…

Sort of covering all of the tropes of the genre.

MJ: Yeah, I want magical territories, I want huge, overwhelming kingdoms and witches and fairies and demons and goblins and all of that stuff. But one of the things I learned from reading people like [Gabriel García] Márquez, is it’s not an either/or. You don’t have to have all of these great, magical worlds and not be literary.

You sort of touched on this, but it seems like people are really into fantasy and sci-fi lately with, for example, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, and Stranger Things. What attracts you, and perhaps others, to these types of stories?

MJ: I think people have always been into it. Game of Thrones wasn’t exactly hurting for sales before the TV show. I think every now and then we do go back to the original stories to try to figure out who we are and how we got here– I certainly did. For me as a story teller, sooner or later you go back to the original stories. Myths happen for a reason. It’s not just that people are reading more, I think a lot of people are writing stuff that’s speculative, certainly a lot of writers of color have been writing a lot of stuff that’s been speculative. You know, the last time we had this it was people like J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis trying to make sense of World War I and this massive evil which nobody anticipated. And I wonder if because reality is so uncertain and so ridiculous lately that maybe only fantasy and sci-fi and magic and all of that can explain it.

I guess you’ve had some experience with this with your previous books, but you’ve been receiving so much attention in the press—I’ve seen your face and your book everywhere, in every major media outlet across the country. How does it feel? Do you feel overjoyed? Is it overwhelming sometimes?

MJ: It is overwhelming, it’s overwhelming and it is kind of strange. I’ve been writing books for a while and I’ve had readings where nobody showed up. My first book I think the original press run was 3,000. So having had every possible sort of outcome in this industry, having been at every possible stage, from the writer nobody’s heard of and nobody really needs to read, to somebody where a lot of people are interested, it can be surreal. There’s a part of me that still don’t quite believe it. But it’s great and it’s great having so many people interested and coming out and reading the book. But yeah, I’m coming from a background where my first tour was me and my friend jumped in a car in LA and driving all the way up to Vancouver and stopping in any bookstore that would have us. And for us, a lot of the times that was bookstores that sold zines. That’ll tell you how far back that was. So to go from that to this and something bigger it’s—of course I’m super grateful—but at the same time I’ve done it all with books.

And then my last question for you actually goes back to the book. You write about sex with a lot of confidence—it’s so strange, but still so sensual. What do you think is the key to writing a great sex scene?

MJ: Ooh, the key to writing a great sex scene. The key to writing a great sex scene is being explicit without being over the top. It’s risking sentimentality. It’s remembering that people actually enjoy sex. I talk a lot about the type of sex scenes I dislike where it seems everybody has contempt for it and everybody enjoys the cigarette afterwards more, then they just go back to their self-loathing. Which is actually kind of classist, because it makes it seem as if working people don’t enjoy sex. But yeah, it has to be honest and it also has to be f—— pleasurable, for having pleasure it should be pleasurable. I always say sex should be sexy. Violence should be violent, sex should be sexy.